"Black Sheep"
March 2001
Okay, this is probably my lamest rant ever. It probably even
borders on just a big whine-fest…. but it’s mid-March and
I don’t have a rant posted… or any ideas for one… so I’m basically
stuck where I was at the beginning of March. Who would have
thought *I* could run out of things to complain about?
Anyway, back to the rant. Am I the only one who ever says "Why don’t I fit into any of the groups in the Buffy fandom?"
Know what I mean? There’s the Buffy/Angel shippers. The Willow/Giles fans. The people who just love Xander and Anya and can talk about them, write fic about them, make and look at pictures with them all day long. Sure, when the people who want Giles and Joyce come in contact with the people who want Giles with Buffy (not making any particular statement about either of those groups, they are simply examples), fur can fly. Two different groups of people with two different opinions of what they really believe is right can cause a big fight. But still… those Giles/Joyce people have their own community. They have their own lists where they share a common viewpoint and really feel at home. They belong… and that feels great.
My problem is that I don’t have it. A few years ago, I did. Buffy and Angel were together on one show and I was B/A all the way. I was on B/A lists and we all loved Buffy and Angel and enjoyed seeing them together. If we complained, it was about Joyce and Xander’s interference and stuff like that. But we all loved both Buffy and Angel and the fact that they were together.
I don’t think I have changed all that much. It’s not like I’ve given up on B/A or anything. I still would love to go to The Buffy Cross & Stake (the only site I can go to for spoilers and believe, without doubt, that it’s true) and find out that Buffy and Angel have a crossover event and the two of them decide that they love each other more than they’ll ever love anyone else and that love is worth giving up seeing anyone else. They’ll decide to have a long distance relationship and be content to visit each other every few weeks or so, and settle on just making out, with the hopes that someday in the none-too-distant future, Angel will earn his humanity.
But some things have changed. I do enjoy Buffy/Riley. I
read Buffy/Riley stories. When Riley left, I was bummed. When
I see repeats with him in it, I whimper and say "Riley come
back!" But still… I ultimately want Buffy with Angel. I just
can enjoy Buffy with Riley in the meanwhile.
Anyway, I don’t fit in *anywhere*. This isn’t a rant bitching about B/A lists, but the ones that I used to be on just annoy the Hell out of me. I’ve given my reasons before and I *really* don’t want letters of defense from B/A list people (please please please don’t send them!) so I will just say, I don’t fit in on B/A lists anymore because I like B/R too. I’ve been told that it’s not possible to be a true B/A fan if I don’t hate Riley. Okay, I’ll be more mild. It’s not possible if I *like* Riley.
I don’t fit in on B/R lists, though, either. I see the same trend with a lot of the people on those lists that I used to see on B/A lists where people are siding with Riley and blaming Buffy for everything (feeling VERY PC today- not everyone on B/R lists does this. I have met some absolutely sweet, cool, wonderful people on B/R lists and they do not feel this way… just *some* people do). I’ve seriously seen posts where people say it’s all Buffy’s fault that Riley went to the vamp-sluts because she didn’t pay attention to him. I mean, this is going along the same lines of "If you don’t feel ready for sex and your boyfriend goes out and cheats on you, it’s your own fault," line of thinking. It’s not like Buffy didn’t have a mother with a possibly (and ultimately) fatal illness and a younger sister, plus the fate of the world on her shoulders. She had a lot on her plate, if she were to spend all her time snuggling with her boyfriend, she wouldn’t have the strong character that she does have. Yes, she made her mistakes. She shouldn’t have held back with Riley; they had huge communication problems… but it wasn’t all on her. He should have spoken up instead of pouting by himself. I love Riley, but he is not without fault.
So…. I get pretty irked at the B/R lists too.
I’m a big Buffy fan. I think I’ve made it clear. She has made her mistakes, but I am not of the belief that she has to be the one human being who is without fault. I can point out when she does wrong. Like, even though I’m kind of wigged about how close to a stalker Spike is… she was kind of harsh with him. I think she was kind of projecting. Like, she was more disgusted with herself (like, maybe she *does* kinda want him too, but it’s wrong for a lot of reasons) but she took it out on Spike. See, I know Buffy does wrong. I’m not a psycho Buffy fan who refuses to see her as anything less than perfect.
The reason I babbled onto that subject is that my major problem with most lists is essentially the fact that they bag on Riley. The B/A lists (at least a while ago- to be fair, I haven’t been on an official B/A list in quite a while) have a lot of bashing of Buffy for dating Riley. The B/R lists bash Buffy because she doesn’t properly worship Riley. The B/G lists…. let’s put it this way… remember in that episode where Buffy was complaining about something to Giles and she started to say "I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them" but thought better of it, because she *can* throw people pretty far, so she said "as far as you can throw them" instead… since Giles is a mortal man? As I predicted, someone complained that Buffy insulted Giles, as if he’s this totally ubersensitive guy who can’t take a joke. The B/S lists… well, I am only on one and it’s not extremely active, but a majority of B/S fans were far too anti-Angel for me to ever feel more than someone who also enjoyed B/S.
I want to make it clear that I am not saying every person in every fandom besides me hates Buffy and has irrational views. I have a feeling that the majority at least doesn’t agree with what I hear a lot on these lists. It seems to me that on every list there are, say, 200 members, 40 of which post. And 35 of those people say obnoxious things. That means only 35 out of 200 bug me… but they’re the loud ones and they’re the ones that give me the "You don’t belong here, Pamela!" feeling.
The whole point of this is not to complain about the poor Buffy bashing. It bugs me, but what are you going to do? The point of this is that I get lonely sometimes. I have three really great online friends. Two of them really agree with me, especially about B/R and B/A. One of them is more neutral about the whole thing. I am so grateful that I have those three people to email and talk to on AIM. Still… I would love to be on a list and read messages other than fanfic, have discussions…. feel welcome. I know it’s important to be an individual and not rely on the crowd… but damn it, I want to have a group of people to share feelings with!
So…. I’d love to hear your responses. Please don’t email me with your defense of any list or pairing. I really wasn’t trying to make this rant about a specific pairing. I only went into details to explain *my* situation. I just want to know if anyone feels the same way. Not specifically that Buffy is bashed or that B/R lists are full of irrational posts… but that you don’t quite fit in anywhere and it’s lonely. I don’t know, maybe this is a horrible rant… but maybe typing it out and having it posted will make you feel better!
Ooh, and if anyone knows of a list or site or something that does share my feelings, let me know! ;)
Responses
Anonymous
Wow, your rants are quite long. ;) Anyway, if this were 6
months ago I probably wouldn't be posting a reply to this
rant, but it's now and I am. Up until that time I would've
considered myself a hardcore B/A fan, like to the extreme.
But...... I grew an attachment to Riley (even if I did deny
it for the longest time-- and sometimes still do). I wanted
to hate him from the start (and I admit I did, at first, for
childish reasons), but then he grew on me and all was lost
then. I thought I'd be happy when he left, but I was actually
sad. Although I've never considered myself a B/R fan, I read
fanfic of them and also posed challenges for fic involving
these two. I even defended their relationship to someone once.
I joined a few B/R related lists. I hated it when people called
him immature names and said he loved his cow Bessie and would
marry her or his sister (no flames for that, please, it *is*
childish) and got humiliated in lame ways. (I know it's fic
and everything, but that really never happens in life.) So,
I never really fit into the B/R group. I didn't like reading
certain posts on B/R lists because, like Pamela said, they
blamed Buffy for everything and it wasn't all her fault and
some didn't like the B/A relationship and didn't agree with
my thoughts on it.
The B/G relationship, I never fit in there because at first
I found it entirely too disgusting. Then, I read B/G fics
and started liking it, but people didn't like that underneath
it all I, sometimes, found it wrong. Someone actually told
me I couldn't be a B/G 'shipper if, on some level, I thought
of it like that. I didn't dislike it, but I felt that all
it would end up being was a father/daughter relationship.
Although watching Doomed (I think--where B/G are talking outside
at his house) I really wanted them together.
As for B/S, I don't fit in there because a lot of stories
I've read, and discussions I've had about these two, they
always paint Spike as being better than Angel and knowing
Buffy better and I don't feel that way (Note: It's not everyone,
just some people). I mostly got into B/S because, well, I'm
fully in love with him, and because their personalities would
be funny to see together as a couple. Another reason is because
I figured if Buffy couldn't be with Angel, then she could
be with someone who was kind of like him. I still enjoy reading
some B/S fics, but I don't think of myself as a 'shipper.
Finally, B/A. I am undoubtly in love with their love story.
I hope, in the end, that they will end up together... forever.
I enjoy anything and everything B/A related and welcome it.
I go back and watch old episodes when they were still together
and it makes me sad. They're great together, and I've never
see Buffy look at anyone else like she did with Angel. Or
move around him like she does with the others. Or kiss him
like she did with anyone else. And, like I said, I would've
considered myself B/A all the way, but things have changed.
I don't fit in with [most] B/A fans because I'm not extreme
enough, and also because I like Buffy with other people. I
think she deserves to see whoever she wants, whoever makes
her happy (no matter how much I wish she'd get back with him).
I once got flamed, by someone I never once talked to in my
entire life, because I said I read B/S or B/other stories.
They went off on me and asked how I could do such a thing,
and said a lot of other untelligent things that don't need
to be repeated. That's when I realized I didn't fit into any
category.
I wasn't extreme enough for B/A, I used to hate B/R, I think
B/G is more father/daughter, and I didn't believe Spike was
better off with Buffy than Angel. So, I'm lonely as well.
It's good to know I'm not alone now.
Andra
I've never replied to a rant before so I hope this reads well.
I agree with you about the unfairness to Buffy on a lot of
lists.
I personally love the character of Buffy, she is strong
and smart and very human. So she is going to make mistakes.
I think for some reason people find it easier to blame Buffy
for the problems of the men in her life then to place the
blame on the men.
Riley and Angel both are great to look at. I won't argue
that point. But just because they look good doesn't mean they
are without faults.
I agree with Pamela, ultimately I want B/A together. But
I can accept Buffy with others until that happens, afteralll
Angel left her to find normalcy, and she has no way of knowiing
that someday she and Angel may get together. So I have no
problem with Riley or Spike for that matter.
I do have the same problem with some lists though, some
people are extremely militant in their views, and it makes
me intimidated to post my own opinions which are usually totally
opposite.
I also take offense when people say really offfensive things
about the actor who portrays a character that someone doesnt'
like. Running Marc Blucas down because you don't like Riley
is wrong in my opinion.
I also have some good friends online that I can talk to
when I know I can't go to my lists. And I'm thankful for that
(thanks Pamela:) )
All in all I enjoy my lists but I do sometimes feel out
of the loop on them. I think that there are a lot more people
who share my point of view but like me they are afraid to
post their opinions some time. It's very true that the squeaky
wheel gets the oil. so those who are loudest with their opinions
get listened too.
Maybe we quiet people need to speak up more, then maybe
the lists would seem a bit more fair? It's just a thought.
Jennifer
Well I want to say that I really feel for you. I can't say
that I feel displaced as far as pairings, but I can understanfd
where you are coming from. I myself am a B/A shipper, but
that doesn't mean that I hated Riley either. I didn't particularly
like Riley, although that has nothing to do with him being
wit Buffy instead of Angel. I just didn't like the character,
there was nothing about him that I really found appealing.
I did tolerate him though and I felt like the show got rid
of him in a crappy way.
I am on B/A lists, but it irritates me to no end when these
militant 14 year olds whine consistently about how much they
hate Riley or Spike or Xander. It's like, this is just a television
show people, get over it! I can't really say for sure about
other lists out there for B/R or B/S or B/A, but I get the
feeling that people on those lists practice the same types
of stupidity. Even though I am a B/A shipper, I do read stories
from other pairings. B/G just kinda grosses me out, like Catherine
Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas.
Basically although I don't feel as if I don't belong to
one particular pairing, I can relate to your feelings. I think
that what we have to keep in mind is that the majority of
the time that these stupid people rant and rave, they are
14 year olds who still have a lot of growing up to do and
if we just ignore them and don't feed them, maybe they will
go away and leave the rest of us be.
Anonymous
Hey Pamela, Well, i jus wanted to say that i feel for you...i've been visiting
your site since the early days and i was pleasantly surprised when you became
a supporter of B/R...i mean the reason why i first visited your site was
because of the B/A theme. Anyway, at first i was all "what the heck? she's
betraying B/A!!" but then i realized you could totally like be cool with
another new couple but still believe in the original (case in point: I loved
it when Cordy and Xander were together but i also enjoy Xander with Anya).
now i have to be honest...i'm still not feeling the whole B/R thing but
i don't hate them...i thought it was pretty cute, you know? and i felt bad
at how they broke up because it was for dumb reasons and lack of communication...i
too dislike how some people only look at it one-sided (it was all buffy's
fault or riley wasn't man enough) i don't even know if this makes sense
or not but oh well...bottom line is, i enjoy the show and it's fun to see
how the characters g! o through changes and obstacles...i still love B/A
but i don't mind if either of them have other people to date...we don't
want them to be lonely old warriors do we? i hope you can see what i'm saying...i
love your site...and you're not alone, ok? take care =)
Pia
Speaking from one outsider to another, I can completely understand what you're
ranting about (it definitely was NOT a whine but a fully justified rant).
I am, first and foremost, a Buffy fan. I adore the character of Buffy -- her
strengths, her stubborness, and all of her weaknesses. She's an incredibly
realistic personality. I love B/A, and I hope to see them together someday
(especially considering I don't really enjoy AtS all that much). Just because
Riley and Angel etc. are handsome -- they're not without flaws, and too many
people (not all, though) refuse to see that. I liked Buffy/Riley, I enjoy
Buffy/Giles, and I adore Buffy/Spike. But I remain quiet on all my lists --
I, quite frankly, don't have the time nor the energy to put up with people
who try to dictate what it means to be a B/A shipper, etc. I'm an outsider,
and although I would love to feel more relaxed on the mailing lists, I don't
want anyone telling me who I should like and to what degree I should like
! them.
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