 A crucifix is a Christian symbol which depicts the cross on which Jesus was crucified. It can be used to repel vampires, and will burn their skin if it touches them. For some reason, it also repels non-Christian vampires. For example in Doppelgängland, Willow, a Jewish vampire, was warded off with a crucifix. |
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| Suggested by: | › Jess |
| Added: | › 28th September 2004 |
| Updated: | › 24th February, 2006 |
| Hits: | › 1266 |
May 4th, 2005 at 2:44 am
Well, the same with holy water, and really the whole idea of Hell in general. It’s all borne of a very Christian worldview.
May 4th, 2005 at 3:19 pm
Always found it odd that a show that never really addresses the question of a supreme Deity (Christian or otherwise), would show explicitly Christian objects being used to ward off evil (vamps).
I guess you could call Angel’s “The Powers that be” the closest the Buffyverse gets to significant benevolent deities, but they’re far more like Greek gods than anything remotely Christian. It’s all a bit muddled really. To be honest I think they just side-stepped the issue of “God” a little bit because the network would probably have been very nervous about offending devout religious types.
The cross and holy water thing was obviously inherited from classical vampire lore, but you’d have thought a show as knowing and subversive as BtVS would have put a fresh spin on these tired old concepts.
May 28th, 2005 at 3:28 am
they do put fresh spin on the whole heaven and hell thing. in season 6 buffy talks about being in heaven, which in christianity is just one place. however, as tara says, there are a zillion heavenly dimensions. i’m assuming that there are just as many demon (or hell) dimensions, which kind of makes it more creative than the god/satan bit.
and vampires don’t have souls, so it probably doesn’t matter what their religion was when they were alive.
May 29th, 2005 at 1:03 pm
A tradition in the occult is that any reference to the spiritual light can be used as a power against the dark.
Christianity is a religion of the light, thus it’s central symbol, the crucifix, is a symbol of light, and so is an anathema to creatures of the dark.
Strictly speaking, according to this tradition, the Star Of David(Judaic), a talisman of Apollo(Greek) or Ra(Egyptian), or any other symbol of light/good should have the same effect.
July 1st, 2005 at 5:10 am
When you put a fresh spin on things, it’s still good to retain enough of the old parameters. Kinda like playing softball with new rules, but still using a bat, a baseball, gloves, and such. The cross and the holy water–such classics in vampire lore!–bring a classic gothic touch to the story, some much needed history, without overburdening it. We’re familiar with them in this context, they’re small, and they don’t need explanation. Think of all the *big* details about vampires that Joss and company have changed.
July 31st, 2005 at 2:47 pm
If you recall, in Conversations with Dead People, Buffy is asked by the vampire she is fighting (whose name escapes me…) if “God” exists, and Buffy replies that it is unclear. It seems safe to assume the the writing staff/producers etc. were purposely vague with the theology in order to broaden their options when dealing with forces otherworldly. Also, it is always prudent to keep in mind that vampires do not exist, and any speculation as to their strengthes or weakness is, by itself, an absurd act….but fun…loads of fun….
July 31st, 2005 at 2:50 pm
…I apologize….I spelled “strengths” incorrectly in my previous entry. As long as this site is “trivia”-minded, I should also point out that “strengths” is the longest word in the English language with only one vowel.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:15 am
Personally, I have to admit I find Religion (note the the caps) quite funny, and I regard the devotion one group of people feel to one “god”, and the devotion another group of people feel to another “god”, more or less the same as football fandom. In short, religion is basically another hobby with teams.
As such, it somewhat irritates me to be told that as a resident of England, my hobby religion has to be “Christianity”.
I need choice - if forced to worship anyone, it would be Angelina Jolie or Led Zeppelin - but I’d really rather not be compelled to worship anyone at all.
Therefore, I’m not sure why vampires need to fear religious symbols. Alfie Bass was allowed to ignore crosses by Roman Polanski in “The Fearless Vampire Hunters”; a vampire sired in China and hunting there would never see a cross (and indeed Chinese vampires usually seem to have OCD, if the rice counting thing is to be believed).
My feeling is that if a symbol had power in life, then it has power for that vampire. Thus Willow the very very relaxed Jew who used crosses to defeat vampires would become UberWillow the vampire who, despite being basically and in some tiny way Jewish, also fears crosses.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:24 am
“a vampire sired in China and hunting there would never see a cross’
why not?
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:29 am
Is this not a cross, in China?
http://www.orme.ws/galleries/quanzhou/church.html
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:35 am
Mair, you are so smart, it isn’t even funny - great link, looks like a cross in China to me.
And isn’t a cross always a vampire repellent, regardless of from whence it came? Vampires are unholy creatures and the Cross is a holy item, like Holy Water, which burns the skin of the vampire. I don’t think we need to look at this from a factual standpoint, but more from the creative lore and Buffy writers who have decided that this is part of their “vampire” story.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:38 am
Well, maybe they would see the occasional cross, but maybe in China they don’t venerate Jesus, or something. I don’t know. I just have a feeling that in China there are fewer Christians. Call me crazy. I’m sure there are missionaries and such, but I doubt Chinamen take the threat of damnation by the Christian God seriously - thus Chinese vampires would equally have no fear of it/her/him and any accompanying symbols.
Oh. And on the subject of whether a symbol works whether or not the creature facing it knows what it means - the “Bible” gives us the specially created God phrase “proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”
Therefore, if someone has no faith in a God, that God is nothing. So vampires only need fear the Gods they believe in.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:40 am
Thanks. sblue. Also, Stevareeno made an excellent point up there about other “symbols of light” possibly having the same effect; they just aren’t part of convetional vampire lore and when trying to decide which conventions to break the buffy writers didn’t bother with that one.
I also figure once you lose your soul, it doesn’t really matter what your religion was before that when it comes to symbols searing your skin
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:42 am
Now that I can buy - it’s the faith of the USER and not the VAMPIRE that causes the efficacy. Cool…
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:44 am
very smart!
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:46 am
Christians are only about 3% of the population–but when you consider how many people live in China, that’s not an inconsiderable number. And I bet THEY take damnation seriously.
“but I doubt Chinamen”
holy shit. you did not just say that. you are even more ignorant that I imagined.
I don’t know. I’m not trying to be all PC, but that’s a rather offensive term to many, if not all, of my Chinese friends.
it’s not about what the vampire fears, it’s that in a fictional universe that adheres to specific conventions regarding vampires, crosses and holy water do damage to said creatures. it’s about the context in which the story occurs.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:52 am
Also, Christianity in China didn’t begin with missionaries, but more likely with Nestoranianism, which spread all over China.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:54 am
My mairce…giving ‘em Hell…ain’t she the best when she’s pissed off?
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:54 am
I’ve sometimes been referred to as an “Enlishman” - not least by Noel Coward. Therefore “Chinamen”. Also “Earthman”; “Human”. Sorry, but I think all that is left is PC angst.
If we are to assume that the cross is, in the BuffyVerse, an universal symbol of pain for vampires, then of course you are right and I am wrong and there is nothing more that we can discuss.
Black and white. You win. Yay you!
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:56 am
One can’t help but wonder what one might use to repel an Islamic vampire….? Or a Druid vampire…? A zorasterian vampire…? And what the f*ck do you use on an atheist vampire?
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:57 am
…and we have a winner….
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:58 am
Ok, sooo glad I wasn’t on the receiving end of that one from mair. And because I’m in over my again, I had to look up “Nestorianism” Per the CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY at www.carm.org, It “is the error that Jesus is two distinct persons. The heresy is named after Nestorius, who was born in Syria and died in 451 AD, who advocated this doctrine. Nestorius was a monk who became the Patriarch of Constantinople and he repudiated the Marian title “Mother of God.” He held that Mary was the mother of Christ only in respect to His humanity. The council of Ephesus was convened in 431 to address the issue and pronounced that Jesus was one person in two distinct and inseparable natures: divine and human.”
Just for anyone who wanted to know.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:02 am
the term *chinamen* emerged in a very different context, one beset by oppression and exploitation (at least in America), than say, Englishman or Human.
But that’s just me, at the end of the day I dont’ really give a flying assfuck what words people use. It’s really the words that surrounds the “badword” that informs my final judgement, but I do respect the power of language and symbols and make every attempt to attend to the history in which they emerge.
i wonder what would hurt me if I were a vampire, seeing as I’m my own walking religious institution. probably the OED would cause searing pain as it is the document of light and guidance.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:03 am
i’m not pissed off.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:06 am
“But that’s just me, at the end of the day I dont’ really give a flying assfuck what words people use.”
“i’m not pissed off.”
I beg to differ.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:09 am
fuck you you fucking assfuck asshole fucker face fuck I am not fucking pissed off
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:10 am
I love you, you fucking fucker.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:12 am
I’ve seen a full-sized OED - best avoided, to be honest. They used to sell a miniaturised one with a wee magnifying glass in a drawer below the two volumes. Only the latter could be reasonably used to render Giles unconscious.
Many users, however, seem to confuse punctilious with pedantic.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:14 am
The OED is my favorite book.
The way I figure it; it has all the other books inside of it.
And if anyone can tell me where that’s from, I will send you a PRIZE
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:17 am
Smells like Steve Martin.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:19 am
nope.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:23 am
Mitch Hedburg?
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:24 am
nope
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:26 am
Fine…tell…I don’t want your stupid prize anyway….
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:34 am
Feeling left out again…
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:36 am
“I’ve seen a full-sized OED - best avoided, to be honest. They used to sell a miniaturised one with a wee magnifying glass in a drawer below the two volumes.”
And to think, I bought the full-sized shelf-eating version….
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:41 am
Abby, don’t feel lost. You are not alone. I’ve been trying to figure out what they are talking about, and while I have idea where mairs quote is from, I think the OED is the Oxford English Dictionary, which is a huge compilation that has been around forever. Maybe I’m wrong and maybe you already knew that part, but I’m just trying to help keep us on the same playing field. Hope that helps:)
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:46 am
Hmm, its hard coming in on these things after they start. Thanks for the heads up somethingblue!
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:48 am
“The way I figure it; it has all the other books inside of it.
And if anyone can tell me where that’s from, I will send you a PRIZE”
M*A*S*H (by Hawkeye…) I remembered (and yes it was nagging me)…what’s the prize?
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:49 am
By the way, I meant to say that I have NO idea where the quote came from, just so we all know I’m clueless:)
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:50 am
Damn, I wanted the prize. Prize-stealer…
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:55 am
jeebuscripes he’s good.
or maybe he googled it.
now I’ll have to think of a prize.
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:07 am
That answer was google-free. I am many evil things, but I never quote another without attribution, and I NEVER lie about knowing shit. Those two things (originality and knowledge) are far too important to me.
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:11 am
meh.
how can you lie about knowing shit? however you happen to find something out…you still know it.
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:12 am
I knew you wouldn’t understand.
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:48 am
I understand slightlyem…I do…
December 23rd, 2005 at 6:29 am
Thanks, babe…I knew YOU would…
December 23rd, 2005 at 6:34 am
*sound of wind*…a tumbleweed rolls by…*
Jeez, this place is deserted…I’m going to bed.
December 23rd, 2005 at 7:26 pm
mairceridwen…i just made it up after someone stole my other nom de plume
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:26 pm
It makes me think of how I never knew how to pronounce “Hermione” in the Harry Potter books (before the movies came out) and I had to check out the scholastic pronunciation guide. Mair - could you please throw out a little pronunciation guide for your user name - its all jumble in my head!
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:35 pm
mair, rhymes with air.
ceridwen, ke (short e) ri (short i), dwen, rhymes with gwen
and the last name: teullyddog, which is pronounced, tooly-dog
Mair Ceridwen Teullyddog
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:39 pm
those are the incest books…my fiance reads those
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:40 pm
are those the incest books…i’m very very very very very very very very tired today.
did i mention that i was tired today?
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:42 pm
It looks pretty Welsh. In their pronounciation, the ‘dd’ is usually a ‘th’ sound. For example, the Welsh name Gwenyth would be spelled Gwynydd.
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:44 pm
yeah, but Teullythog sounds goofy
December 24th, 2005 at 2:51 pm
“irish thugs”…now there’s a redundancy if ever I saw one.
December 25th, 2005 at 12:25 am
Ceridwen has a welsh-ness associated with witchery - though sadly Marion Z. Bradley Californianised the deities associated with magic in “Mists of Avalon”. The truly intriguing witch of “Y Mabinogion” is Math, son of Mathonwy.
There’s also Taliesin the Bard - I lived for a year in the village of Taliesin whilst I was at Aberystwyth doing college things.
“LL” in Welsh usually comes out as “thh” (under-tongued), except when saying “usually”.
And if “Irish thugs” is a redundancy (slightlyembarrassed; December 24th, 2005 at 2:51 pm) then my tiny misdescription of the Chinese on Tuesday becomes vanishingly incorrect.
Happy Christmas, y’all
April 11th, 2006 at 1:11 am
I think the effectiveness of the religious symbol used to repel a vampire has more to do with the belief of the one holding the object than the religious background of the vampire. In this particular episode, Wesley repels vampWillow with a cross, but when Willow tried the same thing earlier in the episode, vampWillow swept the cross aside with no problem.
April 11th, 2006 at 5:44 am
But Willow uses crosses in other episodes to repel vamps while she is still jewish (obviously).
April 14th, 2006 at 3:12 am
What about when there is no one wielding the cross? e.g. Ep 1.10 the Master contemplates a cross in his bat cave and says, “This symbol, these two planks of wood, it confounds me. Suffuses me with mortal dread.”