Faith, by most people’s perspectives, during her time in season three appearances would be considered a ‘bad girl’ because of her rampant immorality, violence, murder, and lack of respect for any rules or legal system. This is embodied in the episode Bad Girls where she accidentally kills the Deputy Mayor yet refuses to accept responsibility, which causes her turn to evil. However, her evil boss, Mayor Wilkins, says in Graduation Day (Part 2), “Faith’s a good girl.” It all depends on your perspective.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:25 am
i think faith is used to show that humans all have souls and no matter how bad they get you can always bring them back to the ok side….sometimes it’s literal. haha.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
I could blame Buff and the scoobys for Faiths dissention. Faith just wasn’t ready to deal with it in the way they wanted. The pragmatic truth of the matter was:
1. It was an accident
2. He was dead; nothing could be done to change that.
I think Faith had a valid point in that it is battle and mistakes do happen and people die.
Given time I think Faith would’ve felt remorse but with the immediate weight, the aforementioned facts, and Buffys incessant badgering she was pushed into rebellion resulting in evil.
Ultimately Faith is responsible for her actions but how can you watch her for ten seconds and not take her side???
December 13th, 2005 at 6:10 pm
I’d like to take more than her side…
December 13th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
It’s not so much much a matter of taking sides but of recognizing that Faith wasn’t going to take responsibility, either emotionally (which is a personal issue and not one for anyone to judge) or legally (which would have been to go to the police, which her failure to do was irresponsible).
“she was pushed into rebellion resulting in evil”
I think her thrust into evil started well before she met the scoobies and killed the deputy mayor. I think a lot of it goes back to issues raised in episodes that indicate the importance of friendship and love and how it kind of shapes the person you become. recall “the wish” when we see how hardened and cynical buffy becomes when she doesn’t wind up in Sunnydale.
“battle and mistakes do happen and people die”
that doesn’t excuse her irresponsibility. incessant badgering or not, she still should have owned up to what she did.
December 13th, 2005 at 6:14 pm
“I’d like to take more than her side…”
yeah…me too
December 13th, 2005 at 7:38 pm
Good points Mairc about what Faith brought to the table from Faith, Hope & Trick on. She didn’t really have the “Scooby” stuff. But what good would “owning up to it” have done? Except for everyone feeling better about themselves. It wouldn’t change a thing except for wasting slayer time. oooh, I’m hardened and cynical like The Wish Buffy. only not as pretty
December 13th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
“what good would “owning up to it” have done”
well it wouldn’t have done much for the plot as the mayor/faith arc becomes pretty central to the season overall. otherwise, in a purely ethical sense, it’s just the right thing to do…so what if it doesn’t change anything? it can certainly help things from becoming worse (in the big picture kind of way). wasting time? so what? a half-hour with the police doesn’t waste any more time than dancing at the bronze so I don’t really see your point.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:22 pm
I can see it now. I’m Faith and I accidentally stabbed the deputy mayor with a stick of wood. Sure ma’am just answer a couple questions, sign these papers, and be on your way. But even if it took a day you are right about that. The time it would take wouldn’t be an issue.
Now, I don’t accept, it’s just the right thing to do. I would accept; it would’ve saved the family of the deputy mayor suffering to know the truth right off instead of his corpse bobbing up days later.
Of course, who cares what I accept. But I enjoy the banter regardless. Thanks
December 13th, 2005 at 8:45 pm
So if there are no immediate or tangible results, it’s not important to respect the law?* If a person has no friends or family, his or her life/death isn’t worth society’s time or resources?
*Of course, doing the right thing isn’t always about obeying the law.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:54 pm
” ‘I’d like to take more than her side…’
yeah…me too”
I’m not exaggerating…my heart literally stopped for a second.
Ok…Mairce…it has now been unequivocally established, you are my dream woman (not to mention, frighteningly reminescent of my previous g/f). I’m catching the next flight to Mairce-ville, and you and I are going to have to have a nice, long chat….
December 13th, 2005 at 9:03 pm
And now I feel compelled to weigh in on the actual subject of this topic: And, in a mad reversal of roles from but a couple weeks ago (and because I am insanely in love with her), I’m joining the Mairce camp, resolutely. (Not that she needs my help…)
Faith was abundently in the wrong. She committed an act of excusable homocide and should have reported it to the authorites, regardless of the complications involved with convincing the poh-poh of Sunnydale as to the circumstances involved in killing the dep. mayor. At a bare minimum, she should have come clean to Giles and Wesley, and paid her debt to society under the auspices of the Watcher’s Council. Her utter lack of contrition for waxing the dep. mayor imbued her utter contempt for mankind and humanity.
Instead, she chose to turn her back on her Slayer duties an join league with the Mayor — a decision that comports with no concept of “doing the right thing” that I can conceive. Her frame of mind for doing as she did does not excuse her actions, though it offers a tepid explanation. As Willow would say, “You had a rough life, Faith…well, boo-hoo.”
Throw the book at her, Judge Mairce. (And beags…if I ever get picked up on some bum murder rap, you are my lawyer…)
December 13th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
I really don’t feel the issue at the heart of Faith’s turn for the worse is whether or not she went to the authoritites, but rather, and in a slayer’s realm, more importantly, that she did not accept what she had done herself. Yes, it was a mistake and yes, it was done and over with, but she had to take responsibility for her actions herself, instead of covering up. She needed to go through the process of acceptance to be able to move forward into a positive state of mind. And since she never did the mental/emotional work necessary to proceed, she stayed stagnant in her own guilt and feeling of herself as evil. I think it was all about the inner struggle of Faith with herself, and no one is to blame but her for that and the outcome.
December 13th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
Yes, that’s why I pointed out (but didn’t have time to elaborate) the difference between emotionally and legally taking responsibility.
December 13th, 2005 at 9:39 pm
exactly, I guess you already said it and I probably was just not acute enough to get it. So, basically, I agree with you!
December 13th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
Right, I have little respect for the law, or most institutions for that matter, merely as entities. I do respect many laws though. As I respect the need for laws. And for sure I respect the consequences of not following the law..
The family thing was just one example I offered as to why she should report the incident.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
“She needed to go through the process of acceptance to be able to move forward into a positive state of mind.”
And, it is somewhat in line with the notion that she needed to deal with the authorities, in that, it is seen as “positive state of mind” when, on “Angel”, she finally surrenders to the police.
It is axiomatic that, in the case of such a major violation of “man’s law”, facing judgment under that law is a critical part of the redemptive process. I therefore conclude that the two are inextricably tied, and she could not do one without doing the other.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:08 am
It was an accident. Is there a law against accidentally, without negligence, irresponsible risk, or malice, killing someone?
December 14th, 2005 at 12:16 am
No, it is not against the law to accidentally kill someone (unless you exhibit either criminal negligence — i.e., failure to recognize a genuine risk of death by your actions — or, in New York State, “a reckless indifference to human life” — i.e., recognizing the risk of death by your actions, you act anyways).
I believe Faith went to the slammer for, amongst other things, beating the crap out of the guy at the bus station in Angel, ripping off his car and breaking into his apartment, and, for her actions in Sunnydale, obstruction of justice by disposing of the dead body of the dep. mayor.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:19 am
…PLUS, she gutted that professor of volcanology…and, she also iced that demon with the Books of Ascension, but they probably didn’t formally charge her with that….
December 14th, 2005 at 12:52 am
Oh yes, she was totally evil after that, I agree, duh. And I have to admit, at the risk of losing my antagonistic powers, that she should have reported the incident. But my whole point was that if B and the gang would’ve been supportive, givin her a little wiggle room, maybe, just maybe she would’ve come clean and continued fighting the good fight. It just seemed that the scoobys were more interested in Faith feeling guilty for her accident than any pragmatic solution. This does NOT make the scoobys responsible for her ensuing evilness or absolve her.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:58 am
beags…don’t despair, you are entirely vindicated in your argument by Season 7…Faith was right there, fightin’ the good fight.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:02 am
[For accuracy’s sake, in New York, the standard is to “act with a DEPRAVED indifference to human life”, not a “reckless indifference” as I had previously posted.
I know…Law Nerd…
December 16th, 2005 at 2:46 am
deep down she is a good girl.she was just mislead.all she wanted was to be aceped.no “good” people would be with her so she went to evil for a little while.but she made up for all of her wrong doings when she helped fight the first.
December 16th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
Faith is a good girl…
but If you work your whole slaying career to be the best and you meet someone who’s ‘better’ in everything and everyone loves the other slayer, then you will get confused… and because of that she could have been really easy to mislead…
December 16th, 2005 at 7:53 pm
Faith certainly resented Buffy, and that insecurity was a HUGE part of her inablity to deal with what had happened…I still think, however, that her vulnerablity toward the dark side goes well past her experience as a slayer and with the scoobies.
“It just seemed that the scoobys were more interested in Faith feeling guilty for her accident than any pragmatic solution.”
damn teenagers.
December 16th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
Rotten kids…with their long hair and that rock-n-roll music…and their obsession with “guilt”…