 When Dawn’s mother appears to her in Conversations with Dead People, the circumstances are different to when the First appears to others. She is surrounded by light and Dawn had to fight to make her mother heard as some force seemed to be stopping her. This led fans to believe that it was really Joyce visiting her daughter. Buffy writer Jane Espenson later revealed that Joyce was supposed to be the First, but it wasn’t completely clear. |
| Source: | › Thanks to Sraeps2 › Jane Espensen's DVD commentary |
| Related Trivia: | |
| Suggested by: | › Jess |
| Added: | › 20th June 2005 |
| Updated: | › 23rd January, 2006 |
| Hits: | › 1462 |
July 2nd, 2005 at 6:45 am
I always thought the First was just being convincing with all that battle stuff Dawn had to do before talking to Joyce, but come to think of it, Dawn would probably have believed her if she just appeared to her. It seems pretty obvious for the viewer that it isn’t Joyce because Joyce wouldn’t say bad things about Buffy (ie She won’t choose you)- but Dawn always seems insecure and doubting of Buffy’s motives so she probably wouldn’t be so hard to convince.
July 2nd, 2005 at 9:57 am
I don’t believe that Joyce was the first because at exactly the same time Cassie (the first) was talking to Willow and the first can’t be in two places at once.
July 3rd, 2005 at 1:45 pm
I didn’t think of that but still, how can you tell it was exactly the same time? Cassie’s conversation doesn’t go that long perhaps the First could squeeze it into the nights schedule.
July 4th, 2005 at 3:44 am
I still believe and am concinced it wasn’t the First because Dawn wouldn’t have had to fight to see her if she was the First. Also, the light around her and the message all make me think it was actually Joyce and not the First.
July 4th, 2005 at 10:21 am
Reply to ant4buffy: The First can be in more than one place at once. At the same time it was visiting Willow as Cassie, it was with Andrew as Warren. As for Joyce/The First, I think we should listen to the writers on that one. After all, they made this world, they would know.
July 5th, 2005 at 7:35 am
Fair point. completely forgot about that. Dammit i hate being wrong. hehe. Nice one.
July 11th, 2005 at 1:27 pm
I think they are now covering up a deleted story. If you read the alternate script for CHOSEN, found on Buffy.nu. Joyce’s words made sense to Dawn and she acted upon them.
This story was later cut so I think that it was origianlly meant to be Joyce!
An interesting point may also be that Joyce didn’t faded different to the two ways the first fades!
December 14th, 2005 at 9:02 pm
I think that it was definetly The First and not Joyce. I think that The First figured that Dawn would be skeptical if Joyce just showed up normally, so it created all that other stuff to make her think that her Mom was fighting to be with her, and at the same time, demonstrate how powerful the First was. If it really was Joyce, why would she say that about Buffy. And Joyce doesn’t have powers. I took the line about not choosing Dawn as a refernce to The Gift, when Buffy was willing to protect Dawn even if it meant the end of the world. And this time…she won’t choose you. I think that was the First putting doubt into Dawn’s mind.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:14 am
I agree with Donna and Storyteller. I think it was the First. All her life, Joyce has promoted peace between the two. She wants them to get along and take care of each other. I doubt that after she died, she would try to create discord between them.
January 27th, 2006 at 11:22 am
I agree with chrisjankunas, it looked like the writers decided to just cut this part out and pretend we forgot about it. A sloppy mistake for a sloppy season.
January 27th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
I honestly thought that it was Joyce all throughout the season back then (was it really three years ago already?), and I must admit that I still believe that they would have made a major deal of this had the show not been about to end. It was not really a sloppy mistake, but rather just a case of running out of time and having to choose what stories they would be able to tell. That’s is just one opinion, however.