 Warren was a nerd who was able to create perfect human-like robots, including one which was an exact likeness of Buffy. He hooked up with Jonathan and Andrew to ‘take over Sunnydale’. The three devised mad James Bond-style gadgets and robbed banks and museums as well as confounding Buffy using magic. Warren became the leader of the three nerds and started to feel more and more power. He accidentally killed his ex-girlfriend Katrina and blamed it on Buffy. Warren went out of control and left his friends behind. He eventually got a gun and shot Buffy blaming her for messing up his latest plan. He shot and killed Tara, which made Willow ’see red’ and, summoning all the dark magics she could, she killed Warren by flaying him alive. The First took the form of Warren in season seven to try and trick Andrew into helping it. Played by: Adam BuschAppeared in: I Was Made to Love You, Intervention, Flooded, Life Serial, Smashed, Gone, Dead Things, Normal Again, Entropy, Seeing Red, Villains, Two To Go, Grave, Lessons, Conversations with Dead People, Never Leave Me, The Killer in Me, Storyteller |
| Related Trivia: | |
| Suggested by: | › Jess |
| Added: | › 10th September 2004 |
| Updated: | › 29th March, 2006 |
| Hits: | › 1799 |
August 14th, 2005 at 7:15 pm
Warren Meers was a very bad man. And I thought Willow was completely justified in killing him and Buffy had no business judging her, especially after she tried to kill faith to save Angel. The only bad thing about killing Warren was that it hurt Willow.
Yes, I really hated him too.
August 14th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
True, Buffy’s idea of right and wrong was usually blurred by people she didn’t personally like - she tried to kill both Faith and Anya after they themselves killed, but let Spike off with a slap on the hand after his zillions of murders.
I think, though, the reason she didn’t want Willow to kill Warren was because of how it would affect Willow herself. Buffy obviously felt that her own conscious could take it, but that it would be the end of Willow.
August 15th, 2005 at 12:00 am
Yeah, but that scene in the house after they take Tara’s body away and Buffy goes on about how “we don’t kill humans” really pissed me off.:
Xander: Yeah, she’s really off the wagon big-time. Warren’s a dead man if she finds him.
Dawn: [bitterly] Good.
Buffy: Dawn, don’t say that.
Dawn: Why not? I’d do it myself if I could.
Buffy: Because you don’t really feel that way.
There are few things I despise more than when someone tells another how they “really” feel.
I don’t think Buffy thinks she could handle killing a human–look at how she felt when she thought she killed Katrina, or how bad she felt carrying around the secret of Faith killing the deputy mayor. Buffy isn’t very empathetic, but I think she was having an especially hard time empathizing there because of her own issues and emotional problems. I think it was more “going through the motions” at that point, before she came around to caring again in the last episode.
August 15th, 2005 at 12:04 am
I think she was sort of “blinded” by the whole Angel thing when she went after Faith. As for Anya, she rested on the fact that Anya wasn’t human. But it is interesting, how she always manages to get around killing Spike.
August 15th, 2005 at 7:03 pm
Anya being a demon, it’s not about how she acts, it’s the fact that she’s on buffy’s turf as far as enacting justice goes.
August 26th, 2005 at 2:43 pm
Well, yes that’s true, but juast as the others said here above,
She tried to kill Faith to save the one she loved.
And I think Warrens was more evil and psykotic than Faith.,
August 26th, 2005 at 3:06 pm
Willow didn’t kill Warren to save Tara, she did it as revenge. There’s a big difference there, and I think that was why Buffy wouldn’t want her to do it, plus the fact that she realized that it wouldn’t be good for Willow herself.
August 26th, 2005 at 8:03 pm
Faith had supernatural powers as a slayer and our justice system could never hold her unless Faith allowed them to do so. I think its on Angel where we see her break out of prison as soon as she learns her help is needed. Warren, on the other hand, had no supernatural powers and could have been arrested, tried before a court of law, and punished for his crimes. Willow’s cruel act of revenge was not justice.
August 27th, 2005 at 7:14 am
“Willow’s cruel act of revenge was not justice”
Yes it was. That assfuck got what he had coming and I loved every minute of his pain and suffering*
Buffy was being a tightassed sanctimonious bitch in her condmnation of Willow. She says, “We don’t kill humans.” Faith is human, even if she is a slayer and Buffy was trying to save Angel, it had NOTHING to do with Justice. I’m sure they could have found some way to contain her. Angel was had done a pretty good job until the Watcher’s council came and messed everything up.
*Please note, in the real world I’m not so passionate about eye-for-an-eye styled vengence.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:22 pm
Heh,
what mairidwen said.
But i odn’t need to repeat it.
Warren got what he deserved, but I don’t thin k will should have killed him, because when you take a life there is consequenses, and I loved willow so I wish she didn’t have had to deal with it.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:28 pm
I gotta also agree with Mair (my middle name is ceridwen - no one i know can even pronounce it!!)…
Warren totally got what he deserved, and Willow was perfectly justified in killing him. I know if it was someone I loved as much as Willow loved Tara I would want to kill them too (clearly I wouldn’t be able to due to the fact that I’m not a Wiccan Goddess!). I remember the very first time I saw that episode though, that flaying scene is pretty gruesome - I was shocked! “Ew!”.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:40 pm
You’re all a bunch of vigilantes. Buffy was right: Human justice, while not always precise, and often falls short, is reserved for humans. Warren was a human who killed a human. He should have been captured and turned over to the authorities to stand trial for the attemped murder of Buffy and the murders of Katrina and Tara.
Willow was NOT justified in killing Warren. It was an act of vigilante justice, meted out by a bereveaved lover of the victim. It is wrong and illegal.
And, for that matter, Buffy should have been arrested and charged with the attempted murder of Faith. The writers employed a moral sliding scale, that stands in stark contrast to the many moral issues explored over the course of the seven seasons of the show.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:08 am
I might concede your argument. I still say he deserved it and I enjoyed every minute of it.
December 30th, 2005 at 4:38 am
“Buffy was being a tightassed sanctimonious bitch in her condmnation of Willow. She says, “We don’t kill humans.” Faith is human, even if she is a slayer and Buffy was trying to save Angel, it had NOTHING to do with Justice.”
Um, you’ve contradicted yourself, mair…Faith is the one who poisoned Angel; ergo, under your theory of eye-for-an-eye justice, Buffy would be ENTIRELY justified in killing Faith.
Pick a lane, girl.
December 30th, 2005 at 5:40 am
My only point was to indicate that buffy did the same thing and therefore had no business condemning willow.
I don’t need to pick a lane. My feelings on the matter derive entirely from my feelings and nothing to do with reason.
December 30th, 2005 at 6:28 am
That should say, my “opinion on the matter derives enturely from my emotions”
it’s been a L O N G night
think of The Body, but with five times as many people
December 30th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Slightly, You display the kind of intellectual consistency usually reserved for sociopaths, objectivists, or maybe libertarians.
December 30th, 2005 at 10:54 pm
Beags…I am arguably a sociopath, I eschew objectivism and was, briefly, a registered libertarian party member.
Now, what I am unsure of is whether you agree with me, or think I am a crackpot…or both.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:27 pm
slightlyembarrassed wrote :
“The writers employed a moral sliding scale, that stands in stark contrast to the many moral issues explored over the course of the seven seasons of the show.”
I agree with this almost entirely, with the single caveat that each of the “good guys” need not have the same morality.
Certainly the writers need to be able to show different sides of the same argument. Whether or not we think it is acceptable for someone to kill another person in revenge for a ghastly act, we must accept that people do do that sort of thing every day - flaying is simply a rare method. At the same time, whether or not we think it absurd that Buffy would internally justify her (attempted) murder of Faith, yet at the same time attack Willow for murdering Warren is also irrelevant - there are people that are that screwed up in every town - we just have to face the fact that Buffy is very screwed up (but that’s another topic). In both cases, one character’s TAKE on the right thing to do is not necessarily the moral truth, or the moral truth the writers are trying to convey.
However, with Spike, I’m afraid the Deus has left the Machina. Here we have a murdering rapist, kept in the series simply because his character is popular. None of the writing around his “redemption” makes any sense - particularly since Xander would have killed him just as surely as Willow killed Warren - and not because he slept with Anya, but because he tried to rape Buffy. He is simply written in in the most convenient way possible, and sadly my realisation of this cheapens the many excellent moments he and Buffy have on the show - like when he thanks her for treating him like a man and not a thing - which would of course be a brilliant line were he a person like Willow who had gone bad for a time, rather than a demon with a muzzle on.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:42 pm
AFE: I appreciate your position that the moral sliding scale was an artistic device; however, at least for the purposes of this site (and many other like it, I assume) what the posters here are attempting to do — while utterly prosaic — is to highlight the these inconsistencies in order to evaluate the cohesiveness of the underlying “message”.
You are quite right when you point out that Spike seemed to have an unlimited “Get Out of Jail Free” card, much of which was due to his immense popularity on the show.
I am not suggesting, nor would I suggest, that an episode in which Warren and Buffy were held over for trial would make for compelling television (though, it might have been an interesting counterpoint to the type of justice Buffy et al. did exact on the show, and the writers would have had a field day). Instead, I was simply trying to point out what I perceived as the flagrant hypocrisy of certain aspects of the show and, to a lesser degree, the inconsistent attitudes it clearly engendered in its fans.
And “kudos” for your “Deus has left the Machina” line. Nice touch.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:45 pm
“grace is NEVER deserved or else it would no longer be grace.”
I’m reminded of the line by Giles to Buffy in “I Only Have Eyes for You”: “Compassion is not given because it is deserved; we give it because the person NEEDS it.”
December 31st, 2005 at 12:02 am
Fair do’s. I’m comfortable with the concept that grace / justice / compassion are never deserved - and cynical enough to note that they are seldom delivered, either.
I must confess the first time I saw Willow eviscerate the boy Warren, I was standing on the sofa shouting “go on, do ‘im”. This is because as a Londoner with no interest in football I have to let out my inner Mme. Guillotine in some fashion. Trouble is, I know how I’d actually behave if some arse killed someone I love. I’d be inconsolable; I’d rail and threaten, but I would allow the police to handle things, and accept the verdict handed down were anyone actually apprehended. This is part of the social contract - I promise not to run about stabbing everyone, in return for which I get not to be stabbed. Thomas Hobbes probably put it better, but it’s been a while, and he is an old dead dude.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:30 pm
This has nothing to do with your discussion here, but I like the pitchur for this triva.
He looks as psykotic as he is.
February 12th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
Warren was one of my favorites…
I loved him and I hate Willow for killing him…
February 12th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
I wanted to love Warren. I would have if he was good, I liked him in season 5 but when he went bad, he got to cocky. But of course, this is what the show wanted.
February 12th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
The one thing I have to say is that Adam Busch’s portrayal of Warren was great.
He really made me dislike Warren and I think that he comes across as really creepy and sleazy and Adam was great at portraying that on screen
February 12th, 2006 at 9:33 pm
tiediechicken
It’s totally okey for persons to have diffrent opiions, but I have to admite that it makes me upset to lear that you actully liked him as a character.
Adam was really good, but warren was a god damn killer.
February 13th, 2006 at 6:12 pm
“*Please note, in the real world I’m not so passionate about eye-for-an-eye styled vengence.”
The problem I have with your comments is that, in the show, they have to treat it as if it was the real world. Therefore, though satisfying, Willow killing Warren was wrong.
I would have to say that for the most part, I agree with slightlyembarrassed. It was written so eloquently, I can’t hope to emulate it.
As for Buffy’s attempted murder of Faith, I believe that is exactly why Buffy was against Willow killing Warren. You can see it in Buffy’s expression after she pulled the knife out of Faith how horrified she was that she had done it. She probably didn’t want Willow to ever experience that feeling.
I do agree though, that she should have been arrested after defeating the Mayor, for trying to kill Faith. Well, not arrested, since there was no one around to accuse her of it; more like turned herself in. (The Mayor was dead and Faith was in a coma.) Of course, I don’t know if fans would have hated her more for doing that, or not. This was the only time Buffy didn’t take responsibility. In ‘Ted’, when she thought she had killed Ted, she told the police she had been the one to push him down the stairs, even though Joyce was willing to cover for her. In ‘Dead Things’, when she thought she had killed Katrina, she was going to turn herself in until she realized she wasn’t really responsible.
Well, there were the Knights of Byzantium also, but it was like a war situation, kill or be killed. They were trying to kill her sister, and anyone who stood in the way of that. And she can’t exactly say, “Oh, I killed those guys in the road, but I *didn’t* kill those guys surrounding that gas station.” And she died shortly after, so it didn’t make much difference.
In regards to Buffy not killing Spike, I’ve already said my share, but I can say some more. If you guys are talking about Buffy killing Spike for trying to rape her, then, YES, she should. I mean, he tried to *rape* her. But I know most of you meant she should have killed him for killing those people while under the control of the First. In this case, I disagree. The key phrase is: ‘under the control of the First’. You guys need to forget that he is Spike. Pretend the one under the control is Willow. Okay, this is the situation:
Whenever she hears a gunshot, the First makes Willow re-live Tara’s death and then she sees everyone as Warren and starts killing them. The Scoobies find this out and know that at any time, the First could activate the trigger. This is much more worrisome than Spike because the Scoobies could barely beat Willow the first time around. And since it’s a trigger, no amount of ‘yellow crayon’ speeches, or the like, would be much help.
In a situation like this, is ‘Kill Willow’ the only answer? Or is it even going to be one of the top five possibilities?
March 10th, 2006 at 10:11 am
The First as Warren in season 7 creeped the hell out of me! Ya know that scene where he was standing by the door to the hellmouth so that Andrew could kill Jonathan there? All Warren did was stand and look scary and well… it was freakin’ scary!! Adam did a really good job at making us all hate Warren.