![[7.12-16.49] Slayer line](../wp-content/image-headlines/0128a69469ffb495acfd1220ba8fdd11.png){kind=small}
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Goof seen in: Potential at 16.49
Both Dawn and Buffy say that Buffy would have to die to activate the next Slayer, but we know that the Slayer line has now been passed to Faith, so Buffy’s death wouldn’t create a new Slayer. |
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| Suggested by: | › Jess |
| Added: | › 24th September 2004 |
| Updated: | › 10th June, 2005 |
| Hits: | › 1777 |
March 16th, 2005 at 11:44 pm
Yes, just to clear this up. Buffy’s brief ‘death’ by drowning in Prophecy Girl, caused a 2nd Slayer, Kendra, to be activated. At this point, and for the next six seasons (!), Buffy is (in a sense) no longer the real slayer. The “slayer line” has been passed to Kendra.
Kendra’s death triggers the activation of Faith. So if Faith were to die, another slayer would be activated. Buffy’s death would have no effect on the slayer line at all since, as far as the “slayer line” is concerned, she is already dead! So very definitely a bit of a goof here.
Of course the whole “slayer line” thing has become completely turned on its head now with the events of Chosen.
March 16th, 2005 at 11:49 pm
Forgot to add, the fact that the slayer line passed from Buffy to Kendra and on to Faith, explains why no new slayer was called after Buffy’s death in The Gift. As I said, Buffy was no longer the real Slayer at this point.
It’s a bit annoying that this genuinely interesting aspect of the slayer mythology was never properly resolved or discussed in the show.
March 17th, 2005 at 7:20 am
The only issue with this was that Buffy and Dawn kept saying in season 7 that Buffy would have to die for there to be a new Slayer - gah!
June 9th, 2005 at 2:47 pm
There’s no evidence that either of them knows that no Slayer would be called if Buffy died. They probably hadn’t even thought about it, to them Buffy was still the real Slayer. The goof is more on the writers’ parts, they really should have cleared this up better.
June 9th, 2005 at 7:19 pm
I have a theory about this. While a third Slayer wasn’t called upon Buffy’s death in The Gift, it’s interesting to note a few things. That particular death was mystical, and for that reason Buffy was able to be resurrected (which also sent the Slayer line into limbo, prompting The First Evil to attack it).
It’s possible that when Buffy was ressurected, somehow the Slayer demon spirit (resident in Faith at the time) got split and some of it went back into Buffy. Notice how Willow’s spell still “worked” even after the Urn of Osiris got smashed. Perhaps the spell did more than they thought, and summoned the demon spirit from Faith.
Possible evidence that at least part of the Slayer demon spirit is back in Buffy is that Spike’s chip doesn’t go off when he strikes her. Tara says that it’s because Buffy’s simply changed on a molecular level, probably enough to confuse the chip, but this doesn’t really feel like a satisfying reason. The chip can tell the difference between human and demon but some little shift in molecules confuses it?
Having the Slayer spirit split between Buffy and Faith is a good explanation for the “weakened” forces surrounding the Slayer line, and would also allow the calling of another Slayer if Buffy dies.
It’s not clear that the characters would know this, however. It’s unfortunate that this issue was not properly handled.
June 10th, 2005 at 8:09 am
Brilliant point. Tis possible
June 21st, 2005 at 7:51 pm
Come on guys…
1)We know that the slayershave been watched and seeked out by the council.
2)The Council, buffy and faith… umh, not big love, no, no…
3)The world is huge. Ain’t because the is no more slayers than 3 on the show that means there is no other.
From those three points, i come to believe that:
The Slayer line never been a “line”. The chosen one die, then a new slayer rise. But, Buffy, well, let’s just say she is crap with rules…
She is the actual first slayer to be drowned and rescued by someone. By the rule she is dead, so a new slayer come.
That doesn’t make Buffy less than a slayer or different than a slayer. She has been chosen, that kinda stuffit’s for life! So she is still a slayer.
We all know what happens with Kendra and Faith.
That said, we don’t know if the second death of Buffy didn’t unleased a new line of Slayers.
I can heard you saying: “What the f**k you think you are saying!!!”
These is a reason why i think this, it is because, let face it, willow is powerful, but i hardly believe she could just create news lines of slayers up to millions, besides she is smart, she would probably only bend the rule of “A slayer die, a new slayer”.
I think she only did pull the potential of the slayer powers out buffy without weakening it, because she didn’t shair the power, she freed it.
June 21st, 2005 at 7:55 pm
Forgot that bit, the council might have hiddens those new slayer froms the other ones. Simply because the council doesn’t like much the two other slayers. By the way, i think buffy got a funny hobby here, dying every 5 years.
June 22nd, 2005 at 1:05 am
I have to say I like Saphir’s idea but I just always thought about this in a very simple way: There was a slayer before Buffy, she died. Buffy was called and then she died. So even though she was resurrected, Kendra was called. Kendra died and so Faith was called. So until Faith dies, a new slayer won’t be called (Well, not really after the events of Chosen).
Now, the little bit about it says “When one slayer dies, the next one is called…” So, there is reason to believe another slayer could have been called after The Gift because technically a slayer did die. But you could also say the slayer (Faith) had already been called or you could say at that point the actual slayer was Faith and Buffy just had slayer powers.
Basically, this is one of those things in Buffy we are never truely going to know the answer too. Oh well…
June 22nd, 2005 at 8:03 am
The slayer before buffy was Lucy Hanover.
July 5th, 2005 at 1:45 am
I saw the episode “Enemies” earlier and I heard something interesting. When the mayor is talking to a turned Angel he says:
Mayor: Torture Buffy. Killing
her’s fine, just make it a slow one.
Angel: My favorite kind.
Mayor: Wonderful, wonderful. We don’t want a replacement Slayer
anytime soon. They can’t all turn out like my girl Faith.
(Faith smiles) Have fun.
July 5th, 2005 at 2:49 pm
Your right. Maybe a goof?
July 5th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
We can probably assume that the Mayor didn’t know about the intricacies of the Slayer line, he just knows “one Slayer dies, another is called business”.
July 5th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
The slayer before Buffy was India Cohen - you find this out in the Buffy novel The Book of Fours. India was called in 1993 and died in 1996 therefore activating Buffy.
Lucy Hannover was a slayer from around 1866 - you found this out in the WB promo that was shown before Buffy premiered in the US. (I have the promo).
Also, in the Buffy novels where we meet Lucy Hannover walking the Ghost Roads she is described as wearing clothes from that era.
But back to the point about the slayer line - there was the line in Grave where Buffy and Giles were talking in the training area in The Magic Box when Buffy was telling Giles that she didn’t understand why she was back. Whe Giles tells her she has a calling she says:
“But someone else would have taken my place”.
So even in season 6 they were saying that a new slayer would be called.
July 6th, 2005 at 8:06 am
1. Good point about the previous slayer before buffy. I wasn’t quite sure.
2. Maybe When buffy said that someone else would have taken her place she meant that someone else would have been brave enough to fight the vamps, like willow or some other person.
July 6th, 2005 at 2:25 pm
Wow great read guys. I agree with Abby M. But was a bit dissapointed that none of the scoobies were not on the look out for another slayer especially since they had a “watcher” right there.
July 6th, 2005 at 2:27 pm
I mean “on the look out” sorry
July 29th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
Hey guys im new to this site but i think i know. a new slayer wasn’t called because of dawn, the monks made dawn out of buffy so the mystical forces of the slayer ran through buffy and faith and also dawn now. caleb/the first even said it is the epi. “Chosen” it says that a “new slayer won’t be chosen until u die.” Hey im wonderin’ have u guys read the alternate script of hte last epi. it’s awesome dawn becomes a slayer and xander dies instead of anya (not that, that’s kewl) but a lot of interesting twists like the first turns into the master and angel and kendra which i wish they made that the real epi. just email me if u want me to send it to ya.
July 30th, 2005 at 5:40 am
I don’t think dawn has anything to do with upsetting the slayer line. Even though Dawn is part buffy, we learn that there is no slayer in her during season seven. She’s not even a potential, I think the spell they cast would have picked on any so-called slayer mystical forces.
I just think it was poor writing. If there had been slayers called after the events of the Gift, the Watcher’s council would have known. I don’t think that the conversation she has with Giles in season six has anything actually to do with the process of succession, just that “someone” would have taken her place. That someone could have been Faith who got eventually got back to the slayage.
On the one hand, that buffy is unclear as to how the line works is believable since she only started and stopped (and likely never finished) her hardcore slayer study during season five. On the other hand, by the time that Willow does her big spell at the end, Buffy seems to know what’s up with the whole deal on whether or not there can/should be more than one slayer. It seems that Caleb/the first should have been better informed, but maybe not, just because someone is old and evil doesn’t mean he knows what’s up.
Overall, they should have cleared it up. It doesn’t surprise me that they didn’t, season seven was pretty bad.
July 30th, 2005 at 5:46 am
Oh, and I don’t think that the watcher’s council would have “hidden” a new slayer. What’s the point of that? Their job is to fight evil; the slayer is their instrument, and she’s have to go to the hellmouth. Maybe they just would have given her a super strict, not easily trod upon Watcher.
July 30th, 2005 at 5:54 am
Oh, and because I am not as well versed in season seven…does the weakened slayer line have to be about the split of slayer powers between faith and buffy? it seems to me that it could have been weakened back during season four when they called upon the source of the slayer’s power and upset the original slayer. i mean, she was pretty pissed.
July 30th, 2005 at 8:57 pm
thats very true. but if ne one still wants the alternate script from the last epi. of the show just e-mail me. it what i think they should have used. joss put it up on a website himself i have it saved to my comp if ne one wants
August 15th, 2005 at 6:39 am
I agree faith took the slayer line, her death was the only thing that could have activated a new slayer, of course then buffy made them all slayers which i have heard say goes against her whole “I was never given a choice” Bitch routine she has been singing for seven years, we know there were at leasr six girls she didn’t ask if they wanted to become slayers. Nice catch on the mayor speech i don’t remember if i had caught that or not. I think the writers just goofed, nobody is perfect not even joss. It took Angel getting his own show before anyone would take joss serious about how to pronounce his name,
August 15th, 2005 at 6:40 am
lol
August 15th, 2005 at 7:58 am
About Buffy not giving the Potentials a choice: As far as the Scoobies know all or most of the Potentials are assembled in Buffy’s living room at the time.
Giles said in ‘Bring On The Night’: “There were many more like them all over the world, but, um, now there’s just a handful, and they’re all on their way to Sunnydale.”
The fact that there seems to be a lot more Potentials out in the world than anyone anticipated can hardly be considered their fault. Apparently the Bringers were a lot *less* successful at finding these girls than Giles or anyone anticipated.
August 15th, 2005 at 10:35 pm
I really agree with Dhoffryn85, ‘cause I read the alternative script and according to it Dawn is an actual Slayer, since she was made out of Buffy. And even when Buffy died she still was a Slayer. When they say:” When one slayer dies, the next one is called…” they’re not refering exactly to the actual Slayer they just say “one Slayer”, and I remember that there was never a case like this before, I mean, having two Slayer at the same time(what it could be very confusing to the Council). So, in the way I see things, even when Buffy died for the second time, another Slayer could still be activated, like in the alternative script, Dawn, and maybe in the real episode they didn’t discover that. In the alternative script there’s a very clear conversation about the Slayers: Buffy, Faith and Dawn.
August 17th, 2005 at 7:20 pm
yea thats what i was talking about, thank u b-witched16, i think they should have used that as the real script i liked it
August 18th, 2005 at 1:19 am
I don’t know. I think Dawn being a slayer or having some kind of special powers would be tacky, to obvious in a way. I like how that played on that idea but in the end she was ‘normal’.
August 18th, 2005 at 3:11 am
Yes, yes, to Abby M. you listen
August 21st, 2005 at 5:25 am
I have a couple of theories. All of these start with maybe!
1. The council did hide another line of slayers because they had one who didnt follow them and one who was “bad”. They also say “this thing has happened before” in reference to Faith going bad maybe thier solution is to get rid of the bad slayer so they get a new one to play with. But in this case they didnt need to get rid of Faith because they had another slayer.
2. Dawn is part of Buffy which means even when she dies part of her lives on so shes not all dead so no one is called.
3. The slayer line is so stuffed up because of the 2 slayer thing that Buffy can never stay dead because there is never anyone to replace her. (the replacement part having been passed on to Faith) So she keeps comming back (someone always has and will be able to find a loop hole to bring her back) to fill the gap.
August 29th, 2005 at 11:05 am
How about this.
At the end of season 5, Buffy did not actually die in the normal sense, her body remained, and was buried. Her soul passed into another dimension, as the scoobies assumed it was a hell dimension. This is the reason another slayer was not called. The slayer demon and Buffy’s soul were never parted but found another dimension.
Later the scoobies reunited Buffy with her left behind body. Remember this was only possible because it was a mystical death (her soul had not passed on in the conventional sense). Once buffy was returned to her body she is again the slayer, and her death would result in a potential being called.
In this scenario, another slayer was not called yet her death would bring about the calling of another slayer as is often implied in season six.
Buffy not being “The” slayer is a pretty major occurence to never be addressed by anyone, evil or good.
August 29th, 2005 at 1:33 pm
Hiding the slayers makes NO sense whatsoever. The council fights evil, the slayer is the instrument and keeping the slayer away from the hellmouth would seriously compromise the council’s integrity. Besides, if the council were hiding another line of slayers, Buffy’s speech in Checkpoint wouldn’t have had as much impact on them.
I just think they screwed up. Either that, or they intentionally kept the slayer succession knowledge vague to maximize the impact of the last episode, which changed the rule of there only being one slayer forever.
August 29th, 2005 at 11:32 pm
There is more than one hellmouth.
August 29th, 2005 at 11:47 pm
okay, but I still don’t believe there is a hidden “line” of slayers.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:57 am
I thought this had been discussed so much that we all knew what had happened.
Buffy died in season 1. That called Kendra who died in season 2. This called Faith who is still active.
After the first time Buffy died she could not call another slayer because she had passed the line to Kendra, then faith.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Thats OK you dont have to belive it. Its only a theory, I think that it could have been on the cards from the writers point of view.
Its my opinion you dont have to agree with it.
September 4th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
I actually think a “hidden line” of slayers is a good idea from a creative standpoint. It’s just in the Buffyverse as it’s been created and portrayed in the television series to this point, it doesn’t make a lot of sense…to me.
It would make an interesting comic book spinoff about another line of slayers and a conspiracy to keep them hidden.
September 10th, 2005 at 4:27 am
This is my theory on the whole slayler line, buffy’s 2 deaths, the first, etc.
I’m kind of suprised no one has mentioned this yet actually…
Beljoxa’s Eye told Anya and Giles that it was Buffy’s return from the dead that tampered with the Slayer line and allowed the first to manipulate things to his advantage.
We all assume the eye is refering to Buffy’s end of Season 5 death, because of what Anya says about how they brought her back. But she’s just assuming, like we all are, that it’s the most recent death that’s screwing things up.
In reality what I believe is that it is refering to Buffy’s end of Season 1 death.
Let’s remember that Joss had the end of the series planned from the beginning and that he knew how the 7 seasons were going to go roughly. So I beleive he planned this whole thing from the very beginning.
Buffy dies at the end of season 1, from that point on, the first uses the fact that the slayler line is tampered with to build strength. Remember, the first time we see “the First” is mid season 3… already he’s getting stronger, he’s been getting stronger and stronger since Buffy’s revival messed up the line, causing two slayers.
I think the first was building up to season 7 all along, and it’s “final play” as it were, had nothing to with buffy’s second death, it was just finally strong enough to start taking some bold steps.
Now, the question is, would buffy’s death have activated another slayer. My guess is yes. Which leads to the next question, why didn’t Buffy’s Season 5 death lead to the calling of another slayer.
It had nothing to do with Dawn… that’s tantimount to saying if a slayer had a child before she died then another couldn’t be called. Dawn was made from Buffy but she’s not buffy (yeah I was kinda bummed about her not being a potential too but oh well, Joss had his reasons).
It was because that death wasn’t a real death. Part of Buffy was actually trapped in another dimension… she wasn’t really completely dead… more like, in two places at once.
Think about it, if Buffy had actually died a clean death, then Willow and Anya and Xander would have greived but they wouldn’t have gone so far as to try and bring her back. They’d have known that it was just her time to go… but this was different and they knew it… though it’s never fully explained how they know, it’s mentioned several times in the first episodes of season 6 that they know that part of Buffy (the concious part) is in a “hell dimension” so they were bringing her back because they were worried about her. So even they knew that whereever she was, there was a part of Buffy still “alive” and trapped somewhere and as far as they were concerned it must have been a hell dimension (we of course no better now).
So because that wasn’t a clean death, no slayer activation, therefore no further splitting of the slayer line.
So in reality, Anya and Xander, and Willow didn’t cause any harm (except for the whole ripping her out of a heavenly dimension)… it was Buffy’s first death, the original death, the one that ripped the slayer line in half that caused the problem… from that moment on, the first was building up power, growing stronger. By season 7… it was strong enough to start taking some bold moves.
Another question I’d like to venture an answer to is why did the tampering of the slayer line cause the first to grow stronger and have a chance at power. Well if you go with my above theory of what actually caused the first to get stronger then the answer becomes clear.
Balance…
You know, for all of Buffy’s ragging on the men who created the slayer line, she didn’t stop to think… no one stopped to think about WHY the men only made one slayer… I mean… it’s not like they couldn’t have made a couple more in the process… why only one… why the rule…
I believe it was because they understood that good and evil had to have a balance… more than one slayer would disrupt that balance and cause things to go haywire… it’s a theme throughout both the buffy and Angel series and I don’t think it’s irony that that theme plays out all through the last season of Angel right after the last season of Buffy… good and evil must both stay in balance… having two slayers disrupted that balance and because of that, the first was “allowed” to get stronger.
In a way it could be said that when Buffy allowed Willow to do what she did that she may have either restored balance… because the first being so strong there needed to be an equally strong force of good again… or further disrupted the balance by creating so much good that the first will continue to grow strong beyond the series… of course with both Buffy and Angel ended… we shall never know… but please ponder what I’ve said and see if you like my idea.
September 10th, 2005 at 7:26 am
Olandir;
I agree with your theory. As a matter of fact the part about why there was not another slayer activated is very similar to the theory I set down also. I think your premise that is was buffy’s first death that tilted the balance of power is very convincing, and makes more sense. I hope this ties all the loose ends about buffy’s multiple deaths and multiple slayer lines. I never really liked the whole “Slayer line passed to Faith” idea, because there was too much in the show that alluded to other slayers being activated when buffy died. And besides buffy will always be “the slayer” Heck that’s the name of the show! I love faith though and was glad to see her come back in Season 7, I would have liked to see Riley back too, we could have had a unit of initiative operatives fighting with the potentials in the last episode.
September 10th, 2005 at 7:40 am
Hey I just though of something else though…If two slayers upset the balance of power and allowed the first to get stronger, what would the developments of the last episode, where every potential became a slayer would do??? Wouldn’t that just make the first even stronger!
September 10th, 2005 at 8:25 am
EXACTLY!
Which is what I pointed out at the end of my last comment. In “Chosen” Buffy critisizes the shadow men for making it only “one” slayer at a time… but what if they had a reason for doing this. What if they knew that multiple slayers would cause havoc in the balance between good and evil.
So it’s very well possible that Buffy’s decision to unleash the power of all potentials could cause the first to come back in 2 or 3 years even stronger than before…
-OR-
It could be because the first came on so strong this time around that Buffy’s decision only restore normality to the balance and it was a good move… maybe “Ubervamps” are the norm now and there are more running around, so having an army of slayers against whatever the first might try to throw at them is just a “different” balance now.
It could go either way… but no matter what i think it supports my theory
September 10th, 2005 at 10:33 am
it’s a good theory but the eye tells Giles and Anya that the first is taking advantage of a recent change in the forces around the slayer…her death in season 1 is not recent at all…
please don’t think I’m trying to pull your theory apart, I’m not, I like it I’m just saying !
September 10th, 2005 at 4:32 pm
No problem… I like it when people think about what I’m theorizing.
Think abou this though… the “eye” is an oricale that has existed since the beginning of time (it tells us this)…
What is “recent” to a being that has existed since the beginning of time…
If I’d been around for that long… I’d consider the birth of Jesus to be recent ;).
September 10th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
I know what you mean…but I thought that the eye was talking on Giles and Anya’s level and what they would see as being recent…I could be wrong though!
Am also glad didn’t think that I was tearing your theory apart!
September 11th, 2005 at 3:53 am
olander
I think it is a very good theory and I havent seen the last series for a while, had forgotten about the “Eye”.
I still disagree about Buffys second death. I just think that there have been a lot of other slayers that could have also died in an incomplete way .(I supose that is how you would say it) I think she may have been the first to be brought back, but if an incomplete death dosnt allow a new slayer to be called then the line would die.
I guess it could have been a first for the slayers, we never hear about any others dying from anything exept vampires.
September 11th, 2005 at 4:15 am
yes, without knowing the history of the slayers before buffy, we can’t be sure what the magic surriounding the line considers a clean “death”… however, I’m willing to bet Buffy’s particular incident was unique… I mean how many slayers have had their essence ripped from their body and thrown into another dimension? Probably none :)
September 11th, 2005 at 4:31 am
lol
Yes I definatly think that shes the only one to throw herself off a tower into an dementional portal to save the world.
September 11th, 2005 at 5:31 am
Something else occured to me… when sibajar asked about whether or not the first would get more powerful now that Buffy and Willow did what they did.
It just dawned on me that the first GAVE Buffy the idea to use the power of the syth to activate all of the potential’s power.
Perhaps the fisrt was manipulating buffy into doing it… think about it, the first manipulates EVERYONE! That’s it’s best ability… maybe it knew that if Buffy did that, she would further disrupt the balance… yeah he’d lose part of his army… but the first can’t be defeated or destroyed… maybe it was just betting on the fact that if buffy undid what the shadow man did… he would be able to grow more powerful than imaginable… oooooooo
Yeah I know it’s a strech… but hey… evil tends to be pretty smart.
October 24th, 2005 at 1:47 am
Uh in “Faith, Hope, and Trick” when the gang first meets Faith. There is a scene in thelibrary where they explicitly state that Kendra’s death is what called Faith. So, how much more evidence do you want… I mean short of the entire watcher’s council coming to Sunnydale with charts and graphs, I think it’s a safe bet she’s holding the line.
I think both slayer’s death could trigger a new one, and as I said when I first commented, I believe that Buffy’s season 5 “death” was not a real death… and the fact that the scoobies seemed to realize this and wanted to bring her back from a hell dimension is what does this for me. Either way, Faith definitely does carry the slayer line.
October 24th, 2005 at 8:03 am
I agree. its almost spelt out in that ep. Buffy does not have the power to call anyone anymore. if she died again (which she did, in season 5 and 6) there would have been two more new slayers. but there weren’t. Next argument please…